This Virgin Birth Nonsense

I was recently invited to an acquaintance’s Evangelical mega-church. I responded “thanks, but I’m not a believer.”

Unaccustomed to such heresy, he asked defensively “why not?”

I’m tentative about real world interactions such as these. I don’t want to alienate people or torpedo burgeoning friendships. So in this case, I tried to leave it at “none of it seems very convincing.”

I understand the ultra-religious well enough to know that the apologetics constructed for these events make perfect sense to them, so I wasn’t too surprised at his continued pushback.

“Fine,” I thought, “welcome to my odd universe (AKA Tim’s undertanding of Jesus).”

I brought up to my friend the problem with the virgin birth. My first impulse when I think about the virgin birth is that it was evidently an evolution of an earlier theology which lacked such magic, but included an invisible spirit which permeates the community and lives within the Christian practitioner. For the sake of flowing conversation, I avoided such tedium.

Instead, my inner rationalist came out.

“Isn’t it an obvious case of Occam’s razor?” I asked. “Shouldn’t we ask questions like: is there a simpler explanation?”

“Such as?” my antagonist goaded.

“Such as it was simply an invention by Iron Age primitives? Or a cynical church high on their congregation’s credulity? Or an add-on that came decades after Christianity’s advent? Magic proposed to embellish Jesus’s biography?”

My friend muttered something about faith, and we let the topic die. It was probably enough pushback to signify the death of that friendship…you can’t win them all, I suppose.

I’ve thought a lot about the virgin birth. We learn from Irenaeus of Lyon (AH i.26.1-2) that the Ebionites and Cerinthians did not believe in the virgin birth. Yet we are led to believe, both by Irenaeus in AH iii.11.7, as well as later church fathers, that both groups used some Gospel which looked like the Gospel of Matthew.

If we imagine what such a Gospel would have looked like, we might conclude it looked something like Mark’s Gospel. Indeed, this puts us in-line with the Marcan priorityhypothesis (the notion that Mark was the first-written of the Synoptic Gospels, followed by Matthew and Luke), which currently enjoys majority scholarly consensus. Thus, a discernible trajectory becomes evident: Mark was written with its own agenda, and copies of it were made which eventually evolved, as a result of competing agendas, into Matthew and Luke.

Given attributes of the Synoptic problem, specifically that there are occasional disagreements between Gospels, even though one relied on another, we might presume that there was intellectual flow between the communities which were appending to the core narrative, and when disagreements arose, such disagreements were codified in each respective Gospel. Thus, we might be able to tease some truth out of Irenaeus’s assertion about the 4-Gospel canon (which he himself put forward): “It is not possible that the Gospels can be either more or fewer in number than they are. For, since there are four zones of the world in which we live, and four principal winds, while the Church is scattered throughout all the world, and the pillar and ground of the Church is the Gospel and the spirit of life; it is fitting that she should have four pillars…”

In other words, each Gospel represented the agenda of the sect and geography in which it was interpolated and redacted.

I have often asked the question: who invented the virgin birth? Based on Irenaeus, it could not have been the Ebionites. Based on what little we know about them, it probably was not the Cerinthians, either. The best I can do is to consider the schism (not necessarily political, but more time and distance) between the Eastern and Western Valentinians. This quasi-Gnostic group, who (curiously) elevated Paul as their Apostle of choice, had a Western sect which did not recognize the virgin birth; yet their Eastern sect did.

Two potential candidate hypotheses emerge:
1. The original virgin birth Valentinians traveled West to Rome, encountered Christians (or other philosophies) who rejected the virgin birth, and the Westerners redacted the virgin birth out of their theology.
2. The Western Valentinians never believed in the virgin birth, and when traveling west retained the original philosophy. The Easterners evolved the virgin birth philosophy later, independent of the westerners.

Given that the virgin birth represents the more complicated philosophy, and that we can already presume virgin-birth-less Mark preceded Matthew (and its virgin birth narrative), the 2nd hypothesis seems more likely correct: that the western Valentinians brought to Rome an earlier theology, and the Easterners later evolved the original philosophy. This specific evolution might help to explain, and indeed be at the root of the ferocious in-fighting which arose in the early Christian church between 100CE and 155CE.

But why should such a theology as the virgin birth have sprung up?

A rationalist might rely on some of my earlier thoughts expressed in my conversation with my zealous friend: that it was simply an enhancement to the narrative invented by someone intent on increasing congregation size.

In my opinion, the virgin birth solved a perception problem.

A late Jewish polemical text, the Toledot Yeshu, asserts that Jesus lived in the time of Jannaeus, and was a result of Joseph ben Pandera tricking and raping Mariamne. Though the earliest extant copies of this text date to the 11th Century CE, the text itself is aware of the Infancy Gospel of Thomas (“He spoke the Ineffable Name over the birds of clay and they flew into the air”), which was written perhaps sometime in the mid-2nd century. This narratives is also echoed in some manner by Celsus, against whom Origen wrote in the mid-3rd century CE.

A story was circulating in the non-Christian world in its early days that Jesus was an illegitimate son – a consistency problem for even the most credulous believer. This story ran contrary to a solidifying narrative within the New Testament that Jesus was conceived through divine intervention.

Though we do not know how Jesus would have responded to such accusations in real life, we have tales of a contemporary competing savior type, Simon Magus, constructing a tale similar to Jesus: “For before my mother Rachel and [my father] came together, she, still a virgin, conceived me…”

This is not the only parallel between Simon Magus and Jesus, but it is interesting we see some evidence of Simon constructing a story which parallels the eventual Orthodox story of Jesus, let alone such a critical component of the Orthodoxy.

In my mind, this parallel suggests a few possibilities in terms of the Orthodoxy’s evolution:
1. The two are mutually exclusive
2. There were accusations of Simon plagiarizing pre-Orthodoxy Jesus attributes
3. There were competing leaders in the early church who had their own attributes, and those attributes eventually were merged into a single Jesus character in the subsequent generations by church fathers.

My personal opinion, given the blurring of other lines and characters in early Christian history, is that Jesus’s attributes were merged with other Christian and pre-Christian leaders to eventually synthesize the Orthodox Jesus we have today.

Author: Tim...Stepping Out

Tim Stepping Out

39 thoughts on “This Virgin Birth Nonsense”

  1. I have been missing your posts for some reason and I am glad to read you again.

    I have been urging people to take a step back and ask a simpler question than the details of the birth of Jesus (which show up nowhere other than two of the gospels and seem to be consider fictional by most scholars). My step back is why would Yahweh make a baby when he had a track record of making perfectly functioning adults (Adam and Eve), Hey Presto! What could Jesus learn in such an apprenticeship? Why would the indignities of being a child be something Jesus would want to experience. Since, according to Christians, Jesus’ mission was the most important event to ever occur, why delay it for thirty years, when a fully adult Jesus could have been created and the first we know of him, he is walking along the shore selecting disciples … oh wait, that is the gospel we call “Mark.”

    Virgin birth, smergin birth, why a birth at all?

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    1. Most scholars are not Christians, this is why they don’t believe in the historicity of the Gospels or Jesus himself.

      They definitely weren’t alive to know for certain and being a scholar doesn’t give you super powers of speculation, so that one can claim to know, if anything actually happened 2000 years ago.

      Most European academics believe in more ridiculous things like a proto European-Indian language that was the mother language of all modern so called IE languages, despite the fact that 2000 years ago nobody believed this! The evidence used is Medieval at best, most of the time, and there simply is no evidence it ever existed.

      It’s taught as a fact. It’s a modern theory that deals in the impossible-to-prove. In reputable learning institutions where nobody dares question the need for this ridiculous hypothetical mother language, it doesn’t exist. It never did according to the (absence of real) evidence.

      You probably wouldn’t dare to question it though. You’d just believe your professor, I would be willing to bet. Because people are followers and easily duped.

      Just because most scholars are in agreement doesn’t mean that they are correct about anything. It’s their belief, when there is no proof, and you believe it’s true, that’s faith. I have faith in God not some pseudo intellectual poser with a fancy title.

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      1. For the majority of Christian scholarship, scholars have been Christian.

        Things that happened 2000 years ago, and were written about, were written by people with an unimaginably narrow view of the world, and who didn’t know where the sun went at night.

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      2. They definitely weren’t alive to know for certain and being a scholar doesn’t give you super powers of speculation, so that one can claim to know, if anything actually happened 2000 years ago.

        This is actually an egregious contention considering that we can be sure with many things that happened in antiquity because they left artifacts, historical writings, and commentaries. While there are stuff that didn’t survived, the early Church Fathers lefts so many writings that actually refutes many of the Christian doctrines. Origen, Epiphanius, and Jerome for instance admitted that the 4 canonical gospels are written in response to the growing cult following of the non-canonical gospels.

        Most European academics believe in more ridiculous things like a proto European-Indian language that was the mother language of all modern so called IE languages, despite the fact that 2000 years ago nobody believed this! The evidence used is Medieval at best, most of the time, and there simply is no evidence it ever existed.

        It is actually not impossible because of the constant borrowing and trading not just with goods and services but also of language since all knowledge is serial. https://www.britannica.com/topic/Indo-European-languages/The-parent-language-Proto-Indo-European#ref603290

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  2. Happy New Year Tim! 🎆

    I have been invited by multiple congregations to attend their preaching sessions and I think the only one missing is the Mormon Church. I still won’t wear their magical underwear nor would I want my own planet in afterlife where I would supposedly live with concubines. 😂 If I was asked the same question and the topic is virgin birth, I probably would’ve approached it differently and ask them the question, “If the four canonical gospels portray accurately the life story of Jesus Christ, then why is it out of the four, only two have the Nativity scenes and yet these two (Matthew and Luke) are not considered as eyewitness accounts?” Many have tried to answer this but fail.

    I have only been atheist for six years but I have listened, watched, apologists explain as to why is such. I can guarantee that the layperson Christian is not even aware of the Church Fathers and their works. Many Christians aren’t even aware that all four gospels are anonymous.

    How I wish Marcion’s works and his Church survived to the modern times. The Catholic Church could’ve been a religious minority.

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    1. Had Marcion survived, it would certainly have made our lives a lot easier, assuming his disciples hadn’t made a concerted effort to squash other heresies. I think there’s a lot of canned answers that one ought to make when arguing against particular superstitions….but for whatever reason, I’m conditioned to try to come up with slightly off-beat solutions to everything, so I tend to stray from (or ignore) “best practices”

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      1. Christians will then recite a prayer to the ghostly Jesus to defend us against the archons, and lead us to the divine pleroma later on.

        I wish in a not so distant future, someone will come up with a neural network where it can show us how life could’ve been if Marcion’s church survived via machine learning algorithms.

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      2. “Had Marcion survived, it would certainly have made our lives a lot easier, … ”

        How so? The ability to read a few books by one author could not possibly make your life easier. This is nonsense.

        In truth you would probably just read and and blog about it and complain about the loss of the Ascents of James, or some other lost book. Hexapla. Tatians other writings. Tertulllians, what did he convert to? It escapes me. Montanist.

        Pretty much the same. See this is how it feels to be criticized regarding your personal opinions and beliefs, when the proper individual finds your silly blog, I imagine Christians feel the same way when every idiot with a laptop can disrespect the thing that is most important to them. And they can handle it, it doesn’t bother most, they don’t seem to care about your blog.

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      3. As people who doubt the Orthodox narrative about Christian history, it would be easier in the sense that we wouldn’t be trying to make sense of the concocted lies, given the evidence to the contrary.

        I’m ok with criticism. No ideas are above criticism, mine included.

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  3. I’m curious if you have written before about the Essenes? I think it was an 18th or 19th century scholar who wrote that Essenes do not believe in the corporeal resurrection just like Marcion’s sect.

    It turns out that the Qumran is not an Essene society but more of a layover for travelers.

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    1. Lots to be said about the essenes. I think Philo has the big insights into them if I recall correctly. Lots of implications about them if you follow the lines, but I haven’t really thought about them in a while. I don’t think I’ve committed a whole post to them. Maybe I will soon.

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      1. You could read everything extant from the ancient world that was written on the Essenes in less than one hour. 3 sources. 4.

        They actually aren’t so interesting or unique. I would prefer information on the Sadducees or Herodian Messianists.

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    2. The information on the Essenes is scarce and could be printed on about 10 pages. There is nothing to write, they don’t exist anymore and we can’t provide more information than Philo and Josephus did.

      I will say that most scholars have failed to notice that Philo said the word Essenes means “Pious” as in Hasidim. Otherwise known as the Asideans.

      The Jewish Encyclopedia from the early 1900’s is the only place that I have seen anyone else make this connection despite the desperate desire for the DSS sect to have been the Essenes. Academia needs to get it together. Scholar is not a title that deserves trust. Unfortunately.

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  4. Welcome back.

    Wondering if you have thought about the core modern Christian idea of Jesus’ death being the payment for sins. It is kind of fascinating that this concept is barely demonstrated in the whole New Testament, but is so core to Christian theology.

    Do you think this idea was a modern Marcion / Christian idea, or could it have origins in Jewish ideas, ie “Suffering Servant” and Job.

    Just an idea for a post!

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    1. Hey Tim,
      I first saw your work on Aeon Byte Gnostic Radio and I couldn’t tell if you were a PHD or an enthusiast. Although I assume your a conpSci guy just because of how you think. Anyway, I was wondering if you had time to come on the Mythvision podcast and talk about what you have researched. I think the listeners would appreciate.

      Thanks,
      Jason

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      1. Hi Jason,
        I’m currently balancing a pretty big (non-Jesus) project (yes, it is a tech project) I’m working on, and I’m a little rusty on some of the content I’d been exploring. I’ll reach out when I have some bandwidth

        -Tim

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      2. Thanks Tim,
        I knew you had to be a tech guy. My wife says we’re all alike. Anyway, I hope everything goes well.

        Cheers,
        Jason

        Liked by 1 person

    2. The interesting thing is that Jesus did not die. He ascended to heaven in the flesh while dead men rot in the ground.

      It’s a theological absurdity that is entirely from the letters of Paul. He believed that believing his teachings was the only way to go to heaven, apparently.

      One of his most famous teachings is that faith alone and not doing good deeds and being a good person who believes
      Nope, faith alone.

      “Foolish man” said James in his letter, “don’t you know that faith without works is dead?”

      Christianity is a religion of contradiction and the New Testament has two schools of thought. That of the 12 Apostles and the 1 false apostle, Paul.

      But the extreme view that actions are of no consequence because what you believe is the only thing that matters, faith alone, is only taught by Paul.

      As far as it being a payment for sin, the Epistle of Barnabas compares it to the Passover goat sacrifice to Azazel which paid for the sins of Israel, so I believe that this is the source of the idea that sin could be paid for by sacrifice.

      Any wise theologian will tell you it is not the sacrifice that gets you in to heaven but the Mercy of God who is the only one who can forgive sin.

      Christianity has always lacked coherence. Believing that God became a man, this is not what the Gospels say. According to the New Testament Jesus is the Messiah and Son of Adam and figuratively the Son of God.

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  5. Tim,
    From reading your earlier comments I know that your pretty busy. If I had to venture a guess I would say you work in IT. Anyway, I was wondering if you’d be open to going on the Mythvision podcast. Your interviews on Aeon Byte are some of my favourites, and I would like to hear if any of your thoughts had changed. It would also be great if they could get Dr. Price on with you. I think you guys both have some great insight.

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  6. The claim that Alma can’t be translated “virgin” is refuted by the English translation of the Zohar which makes a point of telling the reader that “virgin (alma)” ceramic can be translated “virgin.”

    I smiled when I read this because it’s the go to claim, “it wasn’t even prophesied, it just says ‘young maiden.”

    No, not according to the Zohar in English. Alma absolutely can be translated “virgin.”

    I haven’t read the article yet, these are just the frequent assertions of the lazy. The Zohar was only translated this century! And it’s not a Christian book.

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  7. “A late Jewish polemical text, the Toledot Yeshu, asserts that Jesus lived in the time of Jannaeus, and was a result of Joseph ben Pandera tricking and raping Mariamne. Though the earliest extant copies of this text date to the 11th Century CE,”

    So what you are saying is that you wish to present evidence assumed to be 11th century CE as evidence to argue about the manner of impregnation of the womb of a 1st century Jewess?

    And you know this does not really qualify as evidence but you are willing to use it anyway?

    Doesn’t seem to help you prove that Jesus wasn’t born of a virgin. Seems like a personal matter that only Mariam truly knew the truth about.

    Jews wrote a book slandering Jesus, why? Because Christianity was more successful than their religion? Probably.

    It definitely wasn’t because anyone ever had the knowledge of an eye witness to a microscopic miracle in antiquity.

    Hmmm.

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    1. The late Jewish text was aware of a 2nd century text, which suggests that the text was a carryover from an older oral tradition (or simply a manuscript from an earlier writing that no longer survives). I don’t need apologetics or counter-apologetics to know Jesus wasn’t born from a virgin.

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      1. By the way you seem pretty selective about approving my fact filled comments, several, too many, are still awaiting moderation and they are not offensive.

        At least not all. But we all have our opinions about types of people, you with Christians, me with academic and atheist types of people who have nothing better to do than poorly criticize and incorrectly critique various religions that they don’t believe in.

        At least it’s a job for academics, don’t you fix computers?

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      2. What is the name of the second century text and what is it called by the author of Toldot Yeshu, and again, this information is from the Talmud, which is not Christian literature, and still it does not prove the Pandira tale is anything more than a rumor told by enemies of the Christians. Like the Egyptians said Moses was a sorcerer, the Jews say that the miracles of Jesus were performed by stealing the divine Name YHVH and carving it in his thigh.

        Well is this the truth, the Talmud says that it is.!

        If you use Talmud literature (Toldot and the Pandira tale are from the Talmud and its older, probably your “second century text”) for evidence that this miracle DIDN’T happen.

        It can be used as evidence that another did, that the Jews know it was Jesus and sought to explain it without honoring the Messiah, they sought to slander and did.

        Slander isn’t evidence. It’s a lawsuit based on allegations made without any, because they are lies. Libel. As in blood libel.

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  8. Regarding the assertion of Iranaeus that the Ebionites did not believe in the virgin birth, this seems Iranaeus assuming that since they don’t believe that the Messiah was literally begotten by God (which would require sex) and so the title of “Son of God” was bestowed upon him at the baptism.

    This is why in the quote from the so called Ebionite Gospel (and early manuscripts of Luke) quote “You are my son, I have begotten you this day” from the Old Testament.

    The Homilies of Clement, considered by many if not most of scholars of such literature to be “Ebionitic” in origin and this is because it does not teach the trinity, in my opinion, which could be said about the New Testament itself.

    Nevertheless it mentions virgin birth and if we are debating the beliefs of the Ebionites on the virgin birth, the so called Ebionite Gospel has Jesus saying that his mother is the Holy Spirit and carried him to Mount Tabor.

    So they clearly believed in a supernatural or miraculous birth.

    You should have noticed that. Iranaeus thought the Ebionites denied the virgin birth because of their figurative use of the term son of God, not based on sound evidence.

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  9. The 2-4th century “Protevangelium of James”, with a 9th century manuscript, has Mary accused by the Temple authorities of unchastity. A midwife examines her and checks to see that her hyman is in tact, it is said to be. This tradition is in “pseudo-Matthew” as well and so to find evidence of accusations of unchastity, it’s not necessary to look at adversarial Jewish literature.

    You seem to believe this rumor was a problem for people and made them question their faith, and I don’t see any evidence. There is no reason to doubt your belief based on a Christian tradition that was later abused by the Jews to slander Mary.

    You could theorize that this literature was a reaction to the rumors and even if you were correct it doesn’t prove anything, except what people believed and read and wrote in the early centuries after the Messiah.

    It would only mean that they were not afraid to publish what they believed to counter what the Jews were saying about Mary. That is the exact opposite of a problem to be feared, people said Moses was a sorcerer. Nobody doubts because they think maybe he was actually a sorcerer!

    Your way of thinking about and analyzing information is weak, you cite abused versions of known and acknowledged traditions and claim people doubted their faith because of it.

    Who did? According to who?

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  10. @yusufdini

    What is the name of the second century text and what is it called by the author of Toldot Yeshu, and again, this information is from the Talmud, which is not Christian literature, and still it does not prove the Pandira tale is anything more than a rumor told by enemies of the Christians. Like the Egyptians said Moses was a sorcerer, the Jews say that the miracles of Jesus were performed by stealing the divine Name YHVH and carving it in his thigh.

    Well is this the truth, the Talmud says that it is.!

    If you use Talmud literature (Toldot and the Pandira tale are from the Talmud and its older, probably your “second century text”) for evidence that this miracle DIDN’T happen.

    It can be used as evidence that another did, that the Jews know it was Jesus and sought to explain it without honoring the Messiah, they sought to slander and did.

    It should be noted that the Talmud serves way too late to serve as evidence for Jesus’s historicity. Its consists mostly of unflattering commentary about Jesus tradition. Moreover, the earliest strata of the Talmud called “Mishna” lacks any mention or reference to Jesus. The Gemara which dates arounf 4th-5th century CE which is mostly commentary on the Mishna where you’ll find references to Jesus of Nazareth. The Talmud is not an eyewitness account nor does it consist of reliable commentary as it’s dated way too late.

    Same goes for the other writings:
    Thallus- reported a solar eclipse, nothing unusual.
    Phlegon- reported an earthquake which is a common phenomenon
    Bar Serapion- wrote a passing reference about a wise king of the Jews executed, but no mention of who. It could’ve been anyone.

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